Comments on: Thirty Years Later: Still CURED of Paranoid Schizophrenia http://blog.irasteinman.com/intensive-psychotherapy/thirty-years-later-still-cured-of-paranoid-schizophrenia/ Sun, 06 Nov 2016 22:51:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Ira Steinman http://blog.irasteinman.com/intensive-psychotherapy/thirty-years-later-still-cured-of-paranoid-schizophrenia/#comment-16 Ira Steinman Fri, 04 Feb 2011 23:58:15 +0000 http://blog.irasteinman.com/?p=51#comment-16 This may be a difficult process, Colin. Often symptoms recur as medication is diminished. If not, so much the better. If symptoms return, it's important to try to make sense of the meaning of the delusions and hallucinations, and work with a psychiatrist who will use medications in conjunction with an attempt to understand these phenomena. Zen, with its deep breathing, calming and relaxation may give you a central point from which to view everything which arises and realize that it all comes from you. Good luck with this. This may be a difficult process, Colin. Often symptoms recur as medication is diminished. If not, so much the better. If symptoms return, it’s important to try to make sense of the meaning of the delusions and hallucinations, and work with a psychiatrist who will use medications in conjunction with an attempt to understand these phenomena. Zen, with its deep breathing, calming and relaxation may give you a central point from which to view everything which arises and realize that it all comes from you. Good luck with this.

]]> By: Colin Momeyer http://blog.irasteinman.com/intensive-psychotherapy/thirty-years-later-still-cured-of-paranoid-schizophrenia/#comment-14 Colin Momeyer Thu, 03 Feb 2011 08:33:33 +0000 http://blog.irasteinman.com/?p=51#comment-14 Thank you Ira, I have found this writing of yours to be uplifting and grounded. And am inspired by how much sense it makes. -- My experience is of the same diagnosis, and I am in the process of coming off of psychiatric medicines after ten years or more of medication treatment, and therapies. I do not have a clinician who is encouraging this directly. Though I am working with a psychiatrist and therapist. I am interested in radicalized mental health alternatives such as The Icarus Project, and have organized a local chapter in my town. I am nearly off of the medicine Abilify which is thought to be a key medicine in treating schizophrenia. Instead, I have set out through immense anguish and worked closely for four years with a Zen monk. My trainings in Zen and my involvement in community building movements have brought me closer to wholeness. I find that as my thresholds of mental pain expand I can integrate and process threatening elements of the mind and world through a perspective of wisdom. My hope is treatments such as yours can be celebrated instead of marginalized. Thanks. Thank you Ira,

I have found this writing of yours to be uplifting and grounded. And am inspired by how much sense it makes. –

My experience is of the same diagnosis, and I am in the process of coming off of psychiatric medicines after ten years or more of medication treatment, and therapies. I do not have a clinician who is encouraging this directly. Though I am working with a psychiatrist and therapist. I am interested in radicalized mental health alternatives such as The Icarus Project, and have organized a local chapter in my town.

I am nearly off of the medicine Abilify which is thought to be a key medicine in treating schizophrenia. Instead, I have set out through immense anguish and worked closely for four years with a Zen monk. My trainings in Zen and my involvement in community building movements have brought me closer to wholeness. I find that as my thresholds of mental pain expand I can integrate and process threatening elements of the mind and world through a perspective of wisdom.

My hope is treatments such as yours can be celebrated instead of marginalized. Thanks.

]]> By: Jean Davison http://blog.irasteinman.com/intensive-psychotherapy/thirty-years-later-still-cured-of-paranoid-schizophrenia/#comment-13 Jean Davison Wed, 02 Feb 2011 22:52:33 +0000 http://blog.irasteinman.com/?p=51#comment-13 Yes, you're right. I think if I 'd had a psychiatrist who would have helped me come off medication by gradual reduction, it would have been much easier and safer than doing it alone. The first time I tried to come off, I naively went cold turkey, and this was at the stressful time of leaving home. It was awful! I became anxious and distressed to the point I feared I was going mad. By the time I felt ready to try again, I'd figured out that I should gradually withdraw. My psychiatrist didn't agree to my cutting down at all, so I still had to do it secretly, without support. I'd no idea how many milligrams to reduce at a time, which tablets to cut down on in what order or at what pace. Withdrawal was, therefore, more scary (and I suppose more dangerous) than it should have been, but fortunately things worked out well for me. It was wonderful to feel awake and alive again once I became safely drugs-free. I've written in detail about my withdrawal from meds in my memoir 'The Dark Threads'. Yes, you’re right. I think if I ‘d had a psychiatrist who would have helped me come off medication by gradual reduction, it would have been much easier and safer than doing it alone. The first time I tried to come off, I naively went cold turkey, and this was at the stressful time of leaving home. It was awful! I became anxious and distressed to the point I feared I was going mad.
By the time I felt ready to try again, I’d figured out that I should gradually withdraw. My psychiatrist didn’t agree to my cutting down at all, so I still had to do it secretly, without support. I’d no idea how many milligrams to reduce at a time, which tablets to cut down on in what order or at what pace. Withdrawal was, therefore, more scary (and I suppose more dangerous) than it should have been, but fortunately things worked out well for me. It was wonderful to feel awake and alive again once I became safely drugs-free.
I’ve written in detail about my withdrawal from meds in my memoir ‘The Dark Threads’.

]]> By: Ira Steinman http://blog.irasteinman.com/intensive-psychotherapy/thirty-years-later-still-cured-of-paranoid-schizophrenia/#comment-12 Ira Steinman Wed, 02 Feb 2011 16:01:03 +0000 http://blog.irasteinman.com/?p=51#comment-12 This is a courageous tale, Jean; I'm glad it worked out so well. Unfortunately you had to do it by yourself. It would have been preferable had you been able to find a psychiatrist who would look at your symptoms and gradually try to titrate down medicines, all the while seeing how you handled the reductions and talking with you about the issues that brought up symptoms. Your post raises the issue of misdiagnosis and the all too easy diagnosis of schizophrenia, coupled with the overuse of antipsychotic medication to the exclusion of trying to understand what is actually going on in the person called schizophrenic. It would be of great interest if others who have gone cold turkey off of antipsychotic meds or gradually withdrawn from meds could share their stories. Perhaps we can do a retrospective study. This is a courageous tale, Jean; I’m glad it worked out so well.
Unfortunately you had to do it by yourself. It would have been preferable had you been able to find a psychiatrist who would look at your symptoms and gradually try to titrate down medicines, all the while seeing how you handled the reductions and talking with you about the issues that brought up symptoms.
Your post raises the issue of misdiagnosis and the all too easy diagnosis of schizophrenia, coupled with the overuse of antipsychotic medication to the exclusion of trying to understand what is actually going on in the person called schizophrenic.
It would be of great interest if others who have gone cold turkey off of antipsychotic meds or gradually withdrawn from meds could share their stories. Perhaps we can do a retrospective study.

]]> By: Jean Davison http://blog.irasteinman.com/intensive-psychotherapy/thirty-years-later-still-cured-of-paranoid-schizophrenia/#comment-11 Jean Davison Wed, 02 Feb 2011 13:59:49 +0000 http://blog.irasteinman.com/?p=51#comment-11 I was diagnosed and treated for schizophrenia at the age of 18 (back in 1968 in the UK). By the time I reached 21 I was 'written off' as suffering from chronic schizophrenia. For five years I was reduced to a zombie with antipsychotic drugs, and ECT. I came to realize that psychiatry was doing me far more harm than good. In 1974, against medical advice, I withdrew from the debilitating medication, jumped out of the net, and built up a life for myself. Now, over forty years on, I can honestly say I have been fine since then without any meds. So where did my chronic schizophrenia go? After leaving the psychiatric system I found accommodation, a job and, later, became happily married (as I am still), returned to study and obtained a first-class degree. Did I have a brain disease? I think not. There were aspects of my social situation, not my brain, that needed changing (such as moving out of the house where I lived with my dysfunctional family). In my case, I would dispute the diagnosis. It was based only on so-called 'negative' symptoms - lethargy, apathy, lack of affect, social withdrawal - without looking for other possible reasons of these so-called symptoms. I never had the floridly psychotic symptoms which often lead to a schizophrenia diagnosis. None the less I was diagnosed with, and treated for, chronic schizophrenia., which apparently disappeared completely in 1974 when I came off the medication and sorted my life out. I'm sure what happened to me is by no means unique. I dread to think of what my life would have been like if I had continued with the psychiatric treatment. I am not saying that meds are wrong for everyone, but one size does not fit all. I think some serious questioning needs to be done about the validity of the diagnostic process. I was diagnosed and treated for schizophrenia at the age of 18 (back in 1968 in the UK). By the time I reached 21 I was ‘written off’ as suffering from chronic schizophrenia. For five years I was reduced to a zombie with antipsychotic drugs, and ECT. I came to realize that psychiatry was doing me far more harm than good. In 1974, against medical advice, I withdrew from the debilitating medication, jumped out of the net, and built up a life for myself. Now, over forty years on, I can honestly say I have been fine since then without any meds. So where did my chronic schizophrenia go?

After leaving the psychiatric system I found accommodation, a job and, later, became happily married (as I am still), returned to study and obtained a first-class degree. Did I have a brain disease? I think not. There were aspects of my social situation, not my brain, that needed changing (such as moving out of the house where I lived with my dysfunctional family).

In my case, I would dispute the diagnosis. It was based only on so-called ‘negative’ symptoms – lethargy, apathy, lack of affect, social withdrawal – without looking for other possible reasons of these so-called symptoms. I never had the floridly psychotic symptoms which often lead to a schizophrenia diagnosis.

None the less I was diagnosed with, and treated for, chronic schizophrenia., which apparently disappeared completely in 1974 when I came off the medication and sorted my life out. I’m sure what happened to me is by no means unique. I dread to think of what my life would have been like if I had continued with the psychiatric treatment. I am not saying that meds are wrong for everyone, but one size does not fit all. I think some serious questioning needs to be done about the validity of the diagnostic process.

]]> By: Ira Steinman http://blog.irasteinman.com/intensive-psychotherapy/thirty-years-later-still-cured-of-paranoid-schizophrenia/#comment-10 Ira Steinman Wed, 02 Feb 2011 02:59:51 +0000 http://blog.irasteinman.com/?p=51#comment-10 Hi Courtenay. I understand what you say, but would hold out for cure, for the following reasons. The case, presented in TREATING, describes a floridly psychotic woman who had been viewed as a chronic paranoid schizophrenic for 7 years. Within a year, I had gotten her to look at the underpinnings of her beliefs, with the result that she was able to heal and give up delusional beliefs. I and Lois are convinced that the Intensive Psychotherapy led to her understanding her psychotic thinking; we both view her psychotherapy as the quintessential fact in her transformation. As she understood and gave up her delusions--of first seven and then 20 years duration--she cleared and returned to the world--off meds. TREATING the 'UNTREATABLE': Healing in the Realms of Madness was originally going to be subtitled Recovery, Healing, Cure. In the process of an uncovering exploratory psychotherapy, as she understood and calmed, she recovered and healed. The fact that she has maintained these gains, without any additional psychotherapy or antipsychotic medication, for more than 30 years shouts out CURE to me. Perhaps, you are saying that schizophrenia is not a disease process, merely a way of thinking with resultant sequellae, hence can't be cured. I'd settle for Intensive Psychotherapy being the main factor in transforming a person's world view. I'll look at this issue in a future post. In the actual case you can see how instrumental Intensive Psychotherapy was in the rapid change of her condition from crazed heavily medicated psychotic to functioning person in the world. All the best, Ira Hi Courtenay.
I understand what you say, but would hold out for cure, for the following reasons.
The case, presented in TREATING, describes a floridly psychotic woman who had been viewed as a chronic paranoid schizophrenic for 7 years. Within a year, I had gotten her to look at the underpinnings of her beliefs, with the result that she was able to heal and give up delusional beliefs. I and Lois are convinced that the Intensive Psychotherapy led to her understanding her psychotic thinking; we both view her psychotherapy as the quintessential fact in her transformation.
As she understood and gave up her delusions–of first seven and then 20 years duration–she cleared and returned to the world–off meds.
TREATING the ‘UNTREATABLE’: Healing in the Realms of Madness was originally going to be subtitled Recovery, Healing, Cure. In the process of an uncovering exploratory psychotherapy, as she understood and calmed, she recovered and healed. The fact that she has maintained these gains, without any additional psychotherapy or antipsychotic medication, for more than 30 years shouts out CURE to me.
Perhaps, you are saying that schizophrenia is not a disease process, merely a way of thinking with resultant sequellae, hence can’t be cured. I’d settle for Intensive Psychotherapy being the main factor in transforming a person’s world view. I’ll look at this issue in a future post.
In the actual case you can see how instrumental Intensive Psychotherapy was in the rapid change of her condition from crazed heavily medicated psychotic to functioning person in the world.
All the best,
Ira

]]> By: Prof. Courtenay Harding http://blog.irasteinman.com/intensive-psychotherapy/thirty-years-later-still-cured-of-paranoid-schizophrenia/#comment-9 Prof. Courtenay Harding Wed, 02 Feb 2011 02:44:32 +0000 http://blog.irasteinman.com/?p=51#comment-9 Subject: Healing vs Cure Ira: You presented a wonderful story of the recovery process but I would be very hesitant to say that you cured her. Instead you seem to have provided an atmosphere or environment which allowed her brain and other biological systems as well as her psychological state to settle down so she could put herself back together. That is called a healing process. You were but one aspect, albeit it sounds like an important one, of her journey. She did a load of work herself. Only a few surgeries and some antibiotics can claim cure in the medical sense. Courtenay Subject: Healing vs Cure

Ira:
You presented a wonderful story of the recovery process but I would be very
hesitant to say that you cured her. Instead you seem to have provided an
atmosphere or environment which allowed her brain and other biological systems
as well as her psychological state to settle down so she could put herself back
together. That is called a healing process. You were but one aspect, albeit it
sounds like an important one, of her journey. She did a load of work herself.
Only a few surgeries and some antibiotics can claim cure in the medical sense.
Courtenay

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